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11/18/2017 @ 03:21 PM
 

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 Crossbows

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maxx
 May 18 2017 09:08AM (Read 3185 times)  
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I have no interest in trying to legalize crossbows for normal archery season in fact I am completely against it.

What I don't get is how you cant use them during Youth season, shotgun 1, 2. What are the steps to go about changing this?


There were things he could do without declared Reed. "Steaks that don't bleed. Coffee with cream. Guys who don't swear. Boots that leak. Wild animals in cages. Bears trained to do tricks. Cheese that has no smell." Jay Reed
 
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FMB50010
 May 18 2017 10:56AM  
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with out starting a war. Why shouldn't they be legal during archery season?? they are legal to hunt with just a specific season.

again don't a war keep comments peaceful


 
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maxx
 May 18 2017 11:13AM  
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Quote by: FMB50010

with out starting a war. Why shouldn't they be legal during archery season?? they are legal to hunt with just a specific season.

again don't a war keep comments peaceful



Simply because they are much easier to use than a vertical bow. The point of the archery season was because it is more difficult to use. While modern compounds are much easier than what they used to be it is still a craft that takes time to develop.

For example I bought a crossbow because I got a great deal on it. This weekend I had my 7 year old daughter drilling the kill zone of a bear target at 20 yards.

The reason I think the laws above should be changed is while it is easier than a bow it is more difficult than weapons that are legal during the other season. Iowa has some really weird rules around this stuff.


There were things he could do without declared Reed. "Steaks that don't bleed. Coffee with cream. Guys who don't swear. Boots that leak. Wild animals in cages. Bears trained to do tricks. Cheese that has no smell." Jay Reed
 
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TrapCyclone
 May 18 2017 11:21AM  
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I would imagine crossbows cannot be used during the regular archery season (except with a special permit, I believe) as they are inherently more accurate than a traditional bow. The ability to use a scope, lack of motion from not having to draw the bow, and not having to hold the bow at full draw while waiting for a shot all provide an advantage over traditional archery equipment. The reason the rut is archery-only is basically to give deer more of a chance to escape, survive, and grow bigger for another year during a period when they are more vulnerable.

I am not sure why they wouldn't be available for use during the youth, shotgun 1 and 2 seasons. Couple ways to get this changed would be to attend one of the DNR listening sessions and/or to contact your representative to get a bill introduced during the next legislative session. Crossbow use was legalized fairly recently so maybe they wanted to limit it to the late muzzleloader season only as a sort of breaking-in or test period to see how it goes.


Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem (I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery). -- Thomas Jefferson
 
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bigA
 May 18 2017 11:47AM  
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Just to give some comments about crossbows and their perceived benefit over a compound, here is what I have found. I have a permit for crossbow and that is what I use. My issues don't necessarily prohibit me from using a vertical bow, but I am prone to throwing my shoulders out and rendering me unable to pull back a vertical bow for 4-6 weeks at a time, so I didn't want to risk it and was given a permit (not that it really matters for this discussion). here are the advantages imo of a cross bow: 1) lack of motion when deer comes in 2) very accurate with the scope out to 40 yards...could go longer for sure, but that's where I limit myself 3) very fast, deer don't seem to even be close to jumping the string. Now, some reasons where it is not all it's cracked up to be 1) pretty heavy and to be accurate, I rely on a rest for most shots. Yes, you can shoot off hand and I have done so, but it's not as easy as with a vertical bow 2) VERY loud, not too much of a factor since it is so fast, but it's nowhere as quiet as a vertical bow 3) shot limitations are something you have to consider all the time. A vertical bow can be shot in many more situations without as much regard to where your limbs are. with a cross bow, you need to be much more cognizant of tree limbs as you do NOT want to whack a tree with one of the limbs of the bow (so, one of my prime trees has a shooting lane between the V of a tree, no problem with a vertical bow, but not shootable with cross bow. 4) follow up shots are very hard to get if needed. I have done it, but getting the limbs pulled back is pretty tough when you have a deer on alert. When shooting vertical bow, follow up shots are much more quick and easy.

So, that's my 2 cents. I like both and still shoot a vertical from time to time, so this is not a battle of which one is better. Pros and cons with both.


 
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TeamAsgrow
 May 18 2017 11:55AM  
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Legalize them. I see it coming sooner than later. I think that the allowing of straight wall pistol cartridged rifles will open the door for all kinds of new weapons. I am all for it.


Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene.'
 
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maxx
 May 18 2017 01:23PM  
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I am not sure I agree on speed and accuracy. The new bows are everybit as fast as most crossbows and I think I am just as accurate if not better with my vertical bow than I am with a crossbow. But I shoot a lot.

It is much easier to get accurate with a crossbow quickly than a vertical. This is solely based on the fact that my 7 year old daughter can shoot one.

I would still prefer to see it during the other seasons. WI legalized it and my dad said they are now thinking about retracting it after a few years. A big reason why I don't want it is selfishness. It would bring way more guys into the woods during archery season and I think you would see a huge uptick based on that alone of big deer getting shot bringing the collective herd down.


There were things he could do without declared Reed. "Steaks that don't bleed. Coffee with cream. Guys who don't swear. Boots that leak. Wild animals in cages. Bears trained to do tricks. Cheese that has no smell." Jay Reed
 
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Loomis13
 May 18 2017 01:27PM  
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Do you guys actually see less movement than regular bows? The only way I could see it, is if you hold the bow at all times, which I doubt many do. Or the fact that you can get the bow before the deer gets as close as it does with a regular bow? Just kinda playing the devils advocate, I wouldnt give up my bow and do not think they should be legal during bow season.


 
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maxx
 May 18 2017 01:30PM  
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Quote by: Loomis13

Do you guys actually see less movement than regular bows? The only way I could see it, is if you hold the bow at all times, which I doubt many do. Or the fact that you can get the bow before the deer gets as close as it does with a regular bow? Just kinda playing the devils advocate, I wouldnt give up my bow and do not think they should be legal during bow season.



So you see a deer a few hundred yards away and you know you want to shoot it. Do you grab your bow ASAP or wait until you are ready to shoot. You grab it right away. When deer gets in range you have to put your bow up and draw.

With a crossbow you simply lift and squeeze so yes less movement.

For the record I cannot remember the last time I had trouble drawing on a deer. I think a lot of it is based on how our stands are set up.


There were things he could do without declared Reed. "Steaks that don't bleed. Coffee with cream. Guys who don't swear. Boots that leak. Wild animals in cages. Bears trained to do tricks. Cheese that has no smell." Jay Reed
 
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jafergesen
 May 18 2017 02:12PM  
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It seems like a lot of the people that are against it have a false belief that they are right on par with a rifle. That you can shoot long distances with them. I've been in the archery business for well over a decade and it has been my experience that it is more difficult to shoot longer distances with a crossbow than with a vertical bow. Due to that, in hunting situations, it seems that past 30-40 yards you are at an advantage with a vertical bow. I say legalize them! It won't benefit me directly as I hunt with a vertical bow, but why not open it up to them and allow more people into archery hunting.


 
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JA
 May 18 2017 02:41PM  


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A Sea Horse is not a horse and a Cross bow is not a bow!


 
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iowavf
 May 18 2017 02:52PM  
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In my instance, I personally can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn with a bow, but give me a crossbow and pretty sure 30, 40 yards would be very doable. To have a chance to hunt deer during the rut, heck yes I'd have a crossbow. Do I think it needs to be made legal during the regular bow season, no.


 
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jafergesen
 May 18 2017 03:42PM  
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Quote by: iowavf

In my instance, I personally can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn with a bow, but give me a crossbow and pretty sure 30, 40 yards would be very doable. To have a chance to hunt deer during the rut, heck yes I'd have a crossbow. Do I think it needs to be made legal during the regular bow season, no.



Pretty sure or sure? Have you tried hunting with or shot a crossbow before?


 
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PaulB
 May 18 2017 04:03PM  
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broke my collar bone in two places and have a torn rotator cuff was well. I can't pull a bow anymore so I use a cross bow. If anything it will trick you into taking shots that are our of range because you think it can.

It is not much more effective than a bow. It does have a shorter learning curve. I do not see why they would change the archery rules to allow just anyone to use a bow.

I would expect we would get more marginal archers if they did, but for most people stick and string is a deal breaker.


After reading this whole thread I am not sure why Maxx even started it.


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maxx
 May 18 2017 04:07PM  
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broke my collar bone in two places and have a torn rotator cuff was well. I can't pull a bow anymore so I use a cross bow. If anything it will trick you into taking shots that are our of range because you think it can.

It is not much more effective than a bow. It does have a shorter learning curve. I do not see why they would change the archery rules to allow just anyone to use a bow.

I would expect we would get more marginal archers if they did, but for most people stick and string is a deal breaker.


After reading this whole thread I am not sure why Maxx even started it.



I started it because I think that it is dumb that it isn't legal for seasons that have weapons that are significantly more effective, IE youth, Shotgun 1 and Shotgun 2.


There were things he could do without declared Reed. "Steaks that don't bleed. Coffee with cream. Guys who don't swear. Boots that leak. Wild animals in cages. Bears trained to do tricks. Cheese that has no smell." Jay Reed
 
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DILLIGAF
 May 18 2017 04:24PM  
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Why not allow crossbows during the week prior to gun 1 and the days between gun 1 and 2? I'm all for using them during any gun season but not for using them during archery season. The mechanism of firing a crossbow within its effective range is the same as a gun. Less movement and physically easier. Having to draw and potentially hold a vertical bow provides an added level of difficulty that you don't have with other weapons. The accuracy of a compound bow vs. a crossbow vs. a gun is a moot point within 25 yards. The projectile should get there before the deer has time to react. Beyond that distance, the advantage obviously goes to the crossbow and gun because of the increased velocity. The velocity of modern compound bows aren't quite on par with crossbows, but it's not an enormous gap. So, I'm offering a compromise option. Give crossbows the week before gun 1 and 2 and the time between the gun seasons or maybe even the week after gun 2...


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walleye1967
 May 18 2017 04:36PM  


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http://www.drawloc.com/content/line-draw-loc-kit-compound-bows
already legal in Iowa. just a vertical crossbow.


 
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kenhump
 May 18 2017 07:50PM  
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I remember some 'discussions' like this over the years of long bow/recurve vs compound. Mr. Green


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stevenoak
 May 18 2017 08:22PM  
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Quote by: TeamAsgrow

Legalize them. I see it coming sooner than later. I think that the allowing of straight wall pistol cartridged rifles will open the door for all kinds of new weapons. I am all for it.



I will jump on the whipping post with you. I have a buddy that is full time in the archery industry. I asked him how many bow hunters would he guess recover 50% of the deer they hit. He guessed less than half, and regularly hears of hunters recovering way less. There are some very good archery hunters. Then there are ones that shoot junk or don't practice. Then there are the ones that have what he refers to as LOFT. Lack of f#@%ing talent. I am for any increase in the humane harvest % of an animal. The higher the percentage recovered, the less deer wasted. If hunters recover more of what they shoot, they don't have to stick as many. I also see more acceptance by older hunters with worn body parts, that don't care to be classified handicapped to keep hunting. You might be surprised what a partial tear in a rotator does to your ability to hold a bow steady.


 
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papadude
 May 18 2017 09:21PM  
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Quote by: stevenoak

Quote by: TeamAsgrow

Legalize them. I see it coming sooner than later. I think that the allowing of straight wall pistol cartridged rifles will open the door for all kinds of new weapons. I am all for it.



I will jump on the whipping post with you. I have a buddy that is full time in the archery industry. I asked him how many bow hunters would he guess recover 50% of the deer they hit. He guessed less than half, and regularly hears of hunters recovering way less. There are some very good archery hunters. Then there are ones that shoot junk or don't practice. Then there are the ones that have what he refers to as LOFT. Lack of f#@%ing talent. I am for any increase in the humane harvest % of an animal. The higher the percentage recovered, the less deer wasted. If hunters recover more of what they shoot, they don't have to stick as many. I also see more acceptance by older hunters with worn body parts, that don't care to be classified handicapped to keep hunting. You might be surprised what a partial tear in a rotator does to your ability to hold a bow steady.



I have to agree, I hear every year about how someone lost two or three deer during the season because of poor shot placement. I also know that a crossbow is very accurate and if going to a crossbow prevents the loss of deer than I say use them. Because of injuries and old age I am able to use a crossbow and know first hand about their use. You still have to get those deer in range and we all know those big boys don't just walk up and say "shoot me". You still have to use your skills as a hunter to be successful.I started bow hunting in 1968 with a Bear recurve then in 1986 I went to a compound. A couple of years ago I could no longer pull back my Mathews so I had a choice of giving up bow hunting or go to a crossbow.
Needless to say I was not about to give up deer hunting at the young age of 70. Yes it is a little different, but I keep my shots at the same range I used my compound at, 40 yards and under. The weight and awkwardness of the crossbow erases their advantages over the long bows. So overall I say if they help get a few more hunters enjoying the sport and prevent the loss of some deer, Lets use them during the regular bow season.


 
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