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12/16/2017 @ 10:13 PM
 

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 power trim 2004 ELHPT won't hold 'down'

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snokyguy
 March 20 2017 04:25PM (Read 893 times)  
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usual power trim problems are that a motor won't stay in the 'up' position.
well mine does, no issues. it goes up and down great. fluid is great.

what it wont' do, is the motor won't stay in the 'down' position. I know there are check valves that are supposed to prevent this.

I thought it might be something triggered by the SPDT relays, so i swapped the up and down with no change. i also noticed my motor has 3 of those relays. what is the 3rd for? It's wired into a separate harness. same exact part #.

anyways. if it's the check valve, which is internal, how is that triggered to 'flip'. aka it should be pushed open when the hydrolic goes one direction, then close when you stop, but clearly that doesn't occur. is that a mechanical function or electrical? I'm banking on mechanical.

does this basically mean i just need to replace the trim assembly? aftermarket i can get one under $400. easy enough to swap, but money is money ya'know?

i don't feel comfortable going on the river with it like this incase i need to backup quick. normal lake usage: didn't stop me last year. just reverse slower or the motor pulls up.

thoughts?


"it was that big *extends hands farther apart each time the story is told*, I swear."
 
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snokyguy
 March 20 2017 04:29PM  
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n/A see below for update

i see in this diagram (not sure if thats the exact one, but it's close enough)
[removed bad link to assembly that was different]


is the 'tile relief assembly' #4 the issue part here?
to get to that i'll have to pull it off the back of the mount as the bracket is in the way i think.

just getting a game plan before i got look back into it on what i should do. any help is appreciated!


"it was that big *extends hands farther apart each time the story is told*, I swear."
 
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SR Dave
 March 20 2017 05:49PM  
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Quote by: snokyguy

i see in this diagram (not sure if thats the exact one, but it's close enough)
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Merc/Mercury/2004/1043411CD/POWER%20TRIM/parts.html


is the 'tile relief assembly' #4 the issue part here?
to get to that i'll have to pull it off the back of the mount as the bracket is in the way i think.

just getting a game plan before i got look back into it on what i should do. any help is appreciated!



That would be a good first guess. FWIW this valve can be opened up to allow the motor to be tilted by hand. I do this when I put my boat away for the winter. I store my boat off site, with the batteries removed. I have to tow my boat with the motor in the up position to get to the storage site. Once there, I have to manually lower the motor and wrap the boat for the winter. Opening this valve allows that to happen.

Reason I explained this is ,, maybe, just maybe this valve is not closed all the way? Or as you suspect, it is leaking past the valve and allowing the engine reverse thrust to lift the motor. In that case replacing the valve assembly should cure your problem.


 
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snokyguy
 March 21 2017 09:23AM  
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Quote by: SR+Dave

Quote by: snokyguy

i see in this diagram (not sure if thats the exact one, but it's close enough)
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Merc/Mercury/2004/1043411CD/POWER%20TRIM/parts.html


is the 'tile relief assembly' #4 the issue part here?
to get to that i'll have to pull it off the back of the mount as the bracket is in the way i think.

just getting a game plan before i got look back into it on what i should do. any help is appreciated!



That would be a good first guess. FWIW this valve can be opened up to allow the motor to be tilted by hand. I do this when I put my boat away for the winter. I store my boat off site, with the batteries removed. I have to tow my boat with the motor in the up position to get to the storage site. Once there, I have to manually lower the motor and wrap the boat for the winter. Opening this valve allows that to happen.

Reason I explained this is ,, maybe, just maybe this valve is not closed all the way? Or as you suspect, it is leaking past the valve and allowing the engine reverse thrust to lift the motor. In that case replacing the valve assembly should cure your problem.



Kinda my thought as well. i'll see if i can get just that part and if it's worth me looking that route. some components of the assembly basically make after-market full replacement an easier option due to cost/availabiity i've found.

proper link to actual model:
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/MercuryMarine/0T954850/6993/300/Power%20Trim/parts.html

looks like this is actually quite different than the first one i liked. there are 2 poppet sets, i'm assuming one for 'up' and one for 'down' but those are really about over-pressurization.
what i think i need, is the #6valve kit.
6
VALVE KIT, Trim Limit
809873A 2
$34.39

looks like that has all the parts for the connections between the motor assembly/housing and the hydrolic arm.


"it was that big *extends hands farther apart each time the story is told*, I swear."
 
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SR Dave
 March 21 2017 09:36AM  
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In this illustration the MANUAL RELEASE ASSEMBLY is the valve I was referencing for storage.

You may be on the right track but it might also be one or both of the other poppets.


 
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snokyguy
 March 21 2017 10:45AM  
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Quote by: SR+Dave

In this illustration the MANUAL RELEASE ASSEMBLY is the valve I was referencing for storage.

You may be on the right track but it might also be one or both of the other poppets.



you know, you are right. I was thinking the poppet was on the outside and would relief fluid/air which i would be able to see, but this is all internal. i'd be wlling to bet one of those poppets is just stuck open.

I should probably get a #13 seal to replace for when i take the unit apart i suppose.


"it was that big *extends hands farther apart each time the story is told*, I swear."
 
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medicdano
 March 21 2017 11:12AM  
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Quote by: snokyguy

Quote by: SR+Dave

In this illustration the MANUAL RELEASE ASSEMBLY is the valve I was referencing for storage.

You may be on the right track but it might also be one or both of the other poppets.



you know, you are right. I was thinking the poppet was on the outside and would relief fluid/air which i would be able to see, but this is all internal. i'd be wlling to bet one of those poppets is just stuck open.

I should probably get a #13 seal to replace for when i take the unit apart i suppose.



If you are going to take apart the trim unit, replace all the seals while you are at it. Otherwise you may be doing it again in a few years. Replace em all now and hopefully it'll go another 10+ years.


The temple of a true outdoorsman is the outdoors itself.
 
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snokyguy
 March 21 2017 11:43AM  
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Quote by: medicdano

Quote by: snokyguy

Quote by: SR+Dave

In this illustration the MANUAL RELEASE ASSEMBLY is the valve I was referencing for storage.

You may be on the right track but it might also be one or both of the other poppets.



you know, you are right. I was thinking the poppet was on the outside and would relief fluid/air which i would be able to see, but this is all internal. i'd be wlling to bet one of those poppets is just stuck open.

I should probably get a #13 seal to replace for when i take the unit apart i suppose.



If you are going to take apart the trim unit, replace all the seals while you are at it. Otherwise you may be doing it again in a few years. Replace em all now and hopefully it'll go another 10+ years.



i agree, but it only looks like the one there is needed. theres a 'complete' kit that probably cya's me though..

a ~$400replacement unit is sounding just about as good now considering i have a 1yr old at home and only so much time to spend on this... hmm. honestly debating a proper service manual and living with it a bit longer. it's only preventing me from really doing the river at this point.


"it was that big *extends hands farther apart each time the story is told*, I swear."
 
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medicdano
 March 21 2017 12:12PM  
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Only one? Should be a minimum of 2 seals for each ram. One of them may be called a wiper.

$400 is pretty high. I'd do more looking. You should be able to get the valve and seal kit for less than $100.


The temple of a true outdoorsman is the outdoors itself.
 
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snokyguy
 March 21 2017 01:09PM  
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Quote by: medicdano

Only one? Should be a minimum of 2 seals for each ram. One of them may be called a wiper.

$400 is pretty high. I'd do more looking. You should be able to get the valve and seal kit for less than $100.



i can get a whole new assembly(all of it) for $400 aftermarket, not just the seals.

I shouldn't need to take apart the ram(assuming you mean cylinder) as part of this. just the pump portion below the motor.


"it was that big *extends hands farther apart each time the story is told*, I swear."
 
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medicdano
 March 21 2017 01:51PM  
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Quote by: snokyguy

Quote by: medicdano

Only one? Should be a minimum of 2 seals for each ram. One of them may be called a wiper.

$400 is pretty high. I'd do more looking. You should be able to get the valve and seal kit for less than $100.



i can get a whole new assembly(all of it) for $400 aftermarket, not just the seals.

I shouldn't need to take apart the ram(assuming you mean cylinder) as part of this. just the pump portion below the motor.



Gotcha. For the seals you do need to disassemble the cylinder and ram. Not that big of a deal, u just need the spanner wrench.


The temple of a true outdoorsman is the outdoors itself.
 
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snokyguy
 March 21 2017 03:33PM  
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Quote by: medicdano

Quote by: snokyguy

Quote by: medicdano

Only one? Should be a minimum of 2 seals for each ram. One of them may be called a wiper.

$400 is pretty high. I'd do more looking. You should be able to get the valve and seal kit for less than $100.



i can get a whole new assembly(all of it) for $400 aftermarket, not just the seals.

I shouldn't need to take apart the ram(assuming you mean cylinder) as part of this. just the pump portion below the motor.



Gotcha. For the seals you do need to disassemble the cylinder and ram. Not that big of a deal, u just need the spanner wrench.



i presume my seals are ok though as it holds 'up' just fine. if i take apart the motor/pump assembly i shouldn't have to even deal with the cylinder/ram. i should be able to just sit it to the side and then connect the whole thing back up right?


"it was that big *extends hands farther apart each time the story is told*, I swear."
 
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medicdano
 March 21 2017 04:23PM  
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Quote by: snokyguy

Quote by: medicdano

Quote by: snokyguy

Quote by: medicdano

Only one? Should be a minimum of 2 seals for each ram. One of them may be called a wiper.

$400 is pretty high. I'd do more looking. You should be able to get the valve and seal kit for less than $100.



i can get a whole new assembly(all of it) for $400 aftermarket, not just the seals.

I shouldn't need to take apart the ram(assuming you mean cylinder) as part of this. just the pump portion below the motor.



Gotcha. For the seals you do need to disassemble the cylinder and ram. Not that big of a deal, u just need the spanner wrench.



i presume my seals are ok though as it holds 'up' just fine. if i take apart the motor/pump assembly i shouldn't have to even deal with the cylinder/ram. i should be able to just sit it to the side and then connect the whole thing back up right?



That's just it, depending on how your unit is made you may need to disassemble the ram to replace the vavle anyway. And im pretty sure you arethere is a up seal and a down seal, plus the wiper. And least there was on mine.

Unless you are going to sell the boat soon, replace everything. It will take $30 more and 20 more minutes and then you know its done right.


The temple of a true outdoorsman is the outdoors itself.
 
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snokyguy
 March 22 2017 03:46PM  
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Quote by: medicdano

Quote by: snokyguy

Quote by: medicdano

Quote by: snokyguy

Quote by: medicdano

Only one? Should be a minimum of 2 seals for each ram. One of them may be called a wiper.

$400 is pretty high. I'd do more looking. You should be able to get the valve and seal kit for less than $100.



i can get a whole new assembly(all of it) for $400 aftermarket, not just the seals.

I shouldn't need to take apart the ram(assuming you mean cylinder) as part of this. just the pump portion below the motor.



Gotcha. For the seals you do need to disassemble the cylinder and ram. Not that big of a deal, u just need the spanner wrench.



i presume my seals are ok though as it holds 'up' just fine. if i take apart the motor/pump assembly i shouldn't have to even deal with the cylinder/ram. i should be able to just sit it to the side and then connect the whole thing back up right?



That's just it, depending on how your unit is made you may need to disassemble the ram to replace the vavle anyway. And im pretty sure you arethere is a up seal and a down seal, plus the wiper. And least there was on mine.

Unless you are going to sell the boat soon, replace everything. It will take $30 more and 20 more minutes and then you know its done right.



fair enough point.


"it was that big *extends hands farther apart each time the story is told*, I swear."
 
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snokyguy
 March 27 2017 03:31PM  
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http://boatinfo.no/lib/mercury/manuals/40-50-55-60.html#/304

sadly the manual release can't come all the way out for o-ring inspection without taking unit off of boat,
however, finding a service manual online for free is awesome.

at least i have a plan now. they even have o-ring sizes so if i find one bad i can just find a proper replacement anywhere instead of buying a whole kit for $70.


"it was that big *extends hands farther apart each time the story is told*, I swear."
 
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